This map has been created by town councillor Rob Kenney from Keep Westbridge Park Green. Rob says the map – which is to scale – shows the impact on the park if a Morrisons-size supermarket is built and a new leisure centre the size of the new one in Stafford. It was posted on the Keep Westbridge Park Green website’s blog, where Rob wrote:
I have allowed a shared car park but would not envisage a supermarket being happy to share what would be a small car park for all the facilities. Unable to determine the size of a new medical centre that Cllr Philip Jones is proposing but it would take up a sizeable area and probably have to be put on the low-lying land where the fireworks are each year. The building between Morrisons and the play area on the map is the sewerage Pumping Station that would have to remain.
We could be possibly be left enough room to erect a May Pole to dance around at The Stone Festival and a couple of tables for the Food and Drink festival. Stafford Borough keep promising to leave enough green space for our festivals. At the same time they talk of play areas (would be a good thing), a new leisure centre, a medical centre and a supermarket.
However, Richard Evans – who has written about his support for some form of development on Westbridge Park on Joshua Cope’s Can You Imagine Life Without… blog HERE – hit out at the map on Twitter. He said: “This is scaremongering and pure conjecture. Let’s wait for the actual plans to come out before we make up our mind.”
32 comments
Lou
Stone residents? On behalf of all stone residents? I don’t think so! 4,000 odd people signed a petition, which leaves around 11,000 odd people who didn’t sign, so please don’t make comments saying “on behalf of all of stone” when you are completely wrong. I and many people i have spoken to welcome the mixed use develpoment on westbridge park.
Jill Hood, you can list every single shop in stone, it won’t make a difference,no change has been made to westbridge park,no extra supermarket has been built,so why is it shops in stone struggle and force to close? Everyone has their prefered place to shop,wether it’s a little shop,butcher etc or a supermarket.Everyone has their own reasons as for why they shop where they do, could be price,taste,convinience,loyalty,access,variety,rewards, etc. All it would mean is the people who usually have to travel out of stone to shop at the store that will be built on westbridge, would then be able to do their shopping local. You could have every supermarket available in and around stone and it still wouldn’t make a difference to the high st, or other local shops, because people shop where they want to shop. I really don’t understand why you don’t grasp it? Say for example, if you only like getting your footwear from clarks,then you will carry on shopping at clarks,and therefore not using the local shoe shops in our town, because it’s where you prefere to shop for your footwear!
Plus a number of people who shop at morrisons pop into the high st to shop for extra bits prefered in town, so therefore i can only imagine the same will happen with people who would shop at a new store on westbridge.Surely you don’t want to turn the chance of extra trade in our high st away!
I really hope residents of stone and outlying villages will see what a fantastic upgrade to our town this would be.
Stone Residents
No more supermarkets! Stone has a proud tradition of doing well with indpendent small businesses which keep locals happy, if a new supermarket is built local bakery’s will suffer and so will butchers etc… Please don’t let this happen! I’m all for a new leisure centre as I feel Alleyne’s is getting a little tacky, but keep the same staff as they all do great. But please on behalf of all Stone residents no more supermarkets, we have a nice little Morrisons which is more than enough! On behalf of all of Stone, thank you
Tom
Will there be a skatepark like staffords bowl? im hoping for one as the park at the moment is useless to everyone but scooters
Ben Alcock
New skatepark at Victoria park, Wildwood park and Doxey park, take your pick TOM and feel free to invite as many other Stone residents as you want!!
Jill Hood
Hello again Chris Tibbitts. The next instalment of my epic explaination of why we must not have another supermarket in Stone ! The traders I’ve listed are just a small number of the shops who will be directly affected by a supermarket close to the town. Each one of those businesses probably has at least ten local suppliers, some may have more. They too will stop production, will lay off staff, might be renting premises, possibly at one of the business parks such as Whitebridge Estates or Stone Business Park, who will eventually have empty units. The night time economy in Stone will be hard hit as once the unemployed have no savings to rely on they stop visiting the restaurants and pubs in Stone, that’s more unemployed . A supermarket will finish our town is this really what you want Chris?
richard
Interesting that you name businesses on whitebridge estates as an example.
Lets look at the impact as you say. Could we use Bevs Bakery as an example or would that be a cheap shot?
Can i also ask Jill what it was you purchased in Clarks shoe shop in Stafford yesterday that couldn’t have been purchased in one of our two independent shoe shops in town?
You mention night time economy but as a night worker there is nowhere for me to shop after 5 pm on some evenings i have to travel out already for most of my purchases because the shops are not catering to my needs.
Other towns have recognized the need to change and adapted accordingly. By wishing to remain the same you are in effect falling behind the wayside.
Serious question Jill
How is the Town Council going to react to the proposed development at Trentham Gardens with 16 new retail outlets and a marquee anchor store?
Judging by the 2005 Stone Town Vision document undertaken by the BC it would be fair to say the town council will still be asleep at the helm
Jill Hood
Hello Richard I’ve tweeted you a reply so sorry about that. Yes of course you can ask, I have a Clarks Shoe shop voucher from Christmas which I didn’t manage to spend, it’s such a nuisance as I WOULD prefer to shop in the High street but as I take shoe size 9 it’s almost impossible. Would you like to buy my voucher from me then I could spend in the High Street? Totally Locally means increasing what you spend locally and as a realist NO-ONE could spend 100% locally it’s just not possible, even though it says TOTALLY. I try to spend in the local independent businesses as much as I can. As I have a large family I have to budget and use Aldi and sometimes Morrisons and the Co-Op though not very often. I hate shopping but i’m lucky my husband loves it. He always uses the fruit and veg shop in the High Street and Mountfords is his dream shop. I’m a regular daily user of the Lounge but always go to Costa on a Saturday as my 2 friends swear by Costa coffee. So I’m sorry you haven’t released a world exclusive that Jill Hood shops in Clarks in Stafford in fact no one is the slightest bit interested in my shopping habits. I’m not really sure what there is to gain in personal attacks when what we should all be trying to do is make sure that the grassed area is maintained for all our festivals and events and we get the best area for teenagers and toddlers and a fantastic new leisure centre . Whatever happens on Westbridge Park we have to get the best for Stone and now is the time to do that befefore it’s SET IN STONE! I would also like to take the opportunity to say I have NEVER been a Conservative Councillor they wouldn’t have me as I have views of my own and would not tow a party line. I work for the people and not for the party.
Carl
Jill, I was interested to read that you believe there will be some kind of apocalypse in Stone if a new food outlet of 1400 sqm (similar size to Aldi) was built and therefore you would rather see a supermarket in an outlying village. How do you propose such a suggestion will improve the leisure provision in Stone and how is that solution going to rejuvenate Stone High Street. Clearly to help Stone people need to shop locally as you yourself suggest, so therefore we need to keep people in Stone not force them to drive to outlying villages.
As Mark has asked, I am also keen to know if you would now support a food store on WBP. It is considerably smaller than people first assumed and therefore the vast majority of WBP will be left untouched yet Stone still gets a drastic improvement in the leisure provision.
mark
Jill, everybody that has inputted on this forum (and on the fb) want the best for Stone, however there are differing opinions about how best this can be done. As you will see from my posts, I am in favour of some development at WBP because it will help fund new leisure facilities and improve the green space. It will also meet a retail need. A 1,400 sq.m supermarket will leave a considerable amount of green space left undeveloped for the festivals (etc) that you have mentioned above, as such i believe we have arrived at a compromise position where everyone has got what they wants. In light of this, will you be supporting the mixed use allocation as proposed in the draft plan?
mark
Jill, a retail need assessment has been undertaken and this has established that there is a NEED for a new supermarket. I share your concern about the demise of the high street (not just in Stone), however this will not provide a sufficient argument to refuse a new supermarket in Stone.
Ben Alcock
Wrong…..
Jill i suggest you read any report by CBRE or GVA Grimley on daytime and evening economys and look at the Mary Portas report.
This constant scare mongering has no place in an intellectual debate.
Jill Hood
Hello Chris a supermarket close to town now you’re scaremongering, especially me! I’ll use Asda in Stafford as an example to make my point. Shoppers in Stafford go to Asda from the outlying villages and never go into the town centre it’s too much of a walk. They buy their clothes, food , fish, meat, electrical goods, greeting cards, newspapers, alcohol, bread and cakes, kitchen equipment, spectacles, pet food and then with their shopping trolley buy a token lock away their trolley and go to the cafe to have coffee and a snack or a main meal. They then buy their fuel and go home because all their frozen foods may thaw out if they walk into the town centre! I’ll stop there. So far we have taken custom away from cafe’s tea rooms and restaurants in Stone.The Co-op loses out as it sells newspapers and general foods, Hammersly’s , Chatwyns, Gregs and Millies have no one buying their cakes, breads and snacks they will close! How safe will the fish and Chip shops be? The Really Good Card Shop , Clintons and Thoughts have closed because it’s more convenient to buy in the new supermarket than to trudge into Stone. Hylands cannot compete with the cheap electrical goods on sale at this fantastic supermarket so it will close its shop.The Stone Pet shop will close its doors, Walton Stores and Bargain Booze will be disappearing as they can’t compete with the cheap Supermarket booze.Garry’s fish van in the High Street each week will loose his queue and his livelyhood as , yes you guessed it, it’s far more convenient to buy fish from the supermarket when you’re in there.Brydon’s, Lee Walkers and the new butchers in Aidies Alley will shut down as the plastic wrapped meat in the supermarket will be cheaper. Home and Colour Bailey’s and GR8Kitchen ware will all close no point in paying business rates on a failing business. Our 2 opticians will close because the supermarket will sell glasses. Do you get my point yet? I and many others in Stone know the name of every trader and their staff, they take the trouble to chat and not rush you through a check out with your over packaged produce desperate to get the next £ in the till. The High Street will be gone tourists will have no reason to visit our town,Canal tourism will stop there’s nothing to see no where to spend their money.Work out how many staff will be made jobless, therefore reducing the money going into our local economy. A supermarket in Stone will have dire consequences on our town. On a humorous note I can’t ever see Mountford’s closing as no Supermarket could ever compete with David and his family. In fact I bet the Big Boys are quaking in their boots at the thought of taking on Mountford’s Ironmongers! Yes Chris it’s you that’s scaremongering!
richard
Says someone who shops in Clarks in stafford?
I regularly shop in stafford and make use of the 3 hours free parking in tesco
Ben Alcock
Jill, you need to refer to the National Planning Policy Framework and in particular the Sequential test, it clearly states that Retail and leisure developments SHOULD be located within towns or on the edge of the town (300m of the center). This is to ensure that customers stay within the primary shopping area enabling them to shop in the supermarkets and the high street. If what you are proposing comes to fruition (which it wont, because its a ludicrous suggestion) you will push the Stone residents who are not having there retail needs met in Stone shopping in an outlying village instead. How do you propose this will help the High Street??
The problem with the High Street is it is failure to keep up with the changing retail trends. By only opening during working hours, the only people who able to shop on the high street are those people that are retired or part time, so straight away they are alienating a large section of the population who work full time and have the most money to spend. Sure, these people can shop on Saturdays but who wants to do that when they have been working all week.
There is no reason why these independant retailers could not open late one night per week, preferably on the same day as the Farmer’s market becuase there is already a large customer base in the high street. Evidence suggests that people want to support local shops, they want to know where there food comes from etc. A clear indication of this is the rise in the popularity of Farmers Markets. However these independant traders do not always help themselves.
Ben Alcock
Agree with everything Chris has said.
Mary Portas the queen of high streets has stated that to rejuvenate the high street you need to encourage customers to stop travelling to other towns to do there shopping by improving the retail and leisure provision within their town. GVA Grimley and CBRE (retail and leisure experts) have stated with facts, figure and statistics (JILL TAKE NOTE) that by improving the retail and leisure provision people stay in the town longer boosting the evening economy and therefore spend more money.
Ben Alcock
Jill where is your evidence for this Stone Apocalypse that you speak of……. you have no facts to back up any of the wild assumptions that you are making and therefore are clearly scaremongering the Stone residents that are impressionable.
Stafford has seen a number of new supermarkets in previous years – new ASDA, new CO OP and a larger Sainsbury and Asda, how many independant retailers do you think have closed as a result??? Stafford has a vacancy rate of 8% far better than the national average.
Retailers close becasue they dont adapt to changing circumstances, or have an ineffecient management. Clearly some of the independant retailers you mentioned in your rant will not be able to compete on price IF a supermarket was to be built, but by then suggesting that as a result all those retailers will close is ridiculous and gives a dis-service to those independant retailers.
The independant retailers in Stone have built themselves up through offering a quality service, excellent customer service, thorough product knowledge and loyalty, just becasue a supermarket offers a cheaper price does not mean that these customers will automatically stop shopping with these retailers.
Clearly you are an expert on ASDA but as a Staffordian and a frequent Shopper at ASDA i would like to point out a few things that clearly prove your argument is wrong.
I frequently park my car in Asda get my shopping from Town at the local butchers, fruit and veg shop etc then because I dont want my frozen goods to thaw i get my frozen stuff last from ASDA. I can assure you I am not the only ASDA customer who does this.
Besides, as mentionmed previously no decision has been made on whether a supermarket will be built on Westbridge.
Ollie
Well said Jill!
Ben Alcock
Jill, it looks like you have found an impressionable Stone resident.
This is the danger Jill, your assumptions without facts and any evidential basis will persuade individuals like Ollie that points you make are valid.
Allan Skerratt
There are a number of people who care about the future of the environment they live in. They care enough to sign petitions, go to meeting and make their voices heard. To accuse these people of scaremongering demonstrates a lack of credible argument. If people did not raise,’concerns’ we would wake up one morning with whole of Westbridge park covered in concrete. There will be a consultation period where people will express views either way and we will see the result.
Ben Alcock
Alan, I suggest you take a visit to Stafford and look at the excellent improvements Stafford BC has made to the leisure proivison within Stafford, this will clearly show you that Stafford BC is determined to improve tle leisure provision for all not just dog walkers.
Take a trip to:
Rowley Park – look at the new park, athletics track and 3g football pitches, there are also plans to knock down some of the old buildings and build a new indoor track.
Victoria Park – the imporovements to Victoria Park are well documented, it has won countless awards and is set for further improvements this year.
Doxey – Now has a new park, skate park and bike track
Wildwood Park – new skate park
meadowcroft Park – has ambitous plans to build a lake and outdoor gym area.
People in stone need to ask themselves whether they want a large field in the centre of Stone or a smaller park that can be used and enjoyed by all residents of Stone.
Allan Skerratt
Ben
Thank you for the invitations I have been to some of the parks you mention and I do not doubt what you say. I have never said I do not want improvements to the park. In fact I am on record as saying the leisure facilities do need improving. But Stone has one large area of park space open to the public and used for many activities by many different groups. What I do not want to see is a large supermarket with the associated car park on Westbridge park. I have no objections to a supermarket elsewhere in Stone.
Ben Alcock
Allan – what groups?
Westbridge Park has been reported on a number of times by Stafford BC as being underused due to the inaccesibilty to changing rooms, preventing some footballing age groups able to play there, the pitches are inadequate for some age groups so the younger footballers often have to travel outside of the area to play.
As mentioned previously the Westbridge Park play area is wholly inadequate and needs improving. There is no reason why Westbridge Park can not rival Victoria Park given the right investment.
For the record, I do not want to see a Supermarket on Westbridge Park, however I fail to see how the Borough Council is able to improve the leisure provision in Stone sufficiently without some outside private capital. Stafford BC has already stated that the improvements ear marked fro Victoria Park can not go ahead without a developer / private financier on board.
Furthermore, no decision has yet been made as to whether a supermarket will be granted permission for the site.
mark
Allan, I think we are all in agreement that Stone is poorly served in terms of leisure provision and Westbridge Park needs to be improved. Your post also suggests that you recognise that there is a need for a new supermarket in Stone, however you would prefer it to be located in a different location.
The reason why a supermarket needs to be built on Westbridge Park is because if we want a supermarket operator to pay for the leisure improvements that we want at Westbridge Park there needs to be direct link between the two elements. If, as suggested by a number of people, a new supermarket is located at Stone Business Park the Council have no justifiable grounds to request s106 monies to fund the leisure improvements at Westbridge, therefore, we get a supermarket but little community benefits.
Ben Alcock
Furthermore, by pushing Supermarkets out of town, you push customers out of town which further exaserbates the situation on the High Street. To make Supermarkets work in towns they need to enhance what is all ready there and encourage people to shop there.
Clearly there is a large amount of evidence which would suggest that a number of Stone residents do there shopping outside of Stone therefore there is a need for this Supermarket in Stone. By having a supermarket in a central location it allows customers the opportunity to shop in the supermarket and in the High Street. The Stafford BC have acknowledged that one way to get shoppers into towns is to waive car parking charges as that has been percieved as an inhibitory factor as to why people tend to visit high streets less. Therefore by having a free supermarket car park in a town centre location would help.
mark
I think you are doing Stafford BC a disservice by claiming that they would allow the whole of Westbridge Park to be developed. Furthermore, by suggesting such ludicrous accusations is scaremongering, which undermines your argument.
Allan Skerratt
Mark
Rob Kenny has done an overlay of a supermarket and the associated carpark on a ground plane of Westbridge park. It is a contructive piece of work. The only crticism of it that I have seen is that he included a stream which is 6 feet wide. Which is the widthe of one parking space. Now whether you agree with it or not it is a contructive well argued piece of work which adds information to the debate.
Your contibution is to insult other contributors calling them ‘naive’, ‘scaremongerers’ and implying they are to unintelligent, ‘ludicrous’ or ‘impressionable’ to understand what is going on. Put forward your ideas let people read them then let them decide.
mark
Allan, have you had an opportunity to review the plans that have been produced? What do you think? I believe its a constructive step by the BC.
mark
Allan, i am all for a debate on the future of Westbrdige and it is welcoming to see so many people taking a keen interest in the future of Westbridge (and Stone). However, i have been concerned by a number of posts because i consider they have sought to cause scaremongering and have made accusations or comments that have been unsupported.
I have made no comment on the work undertaken by Cllr Kenny, however following your post i am happy to do so now. The work undertaken by Cllr Kenny is stil based on a number of unknowns and, therefore, i consider his work to be premature. As far as I understand it there is still some uncertainty on the size of the new supermarket and what leisure provisions will be provided. Both of these factors will significantly alter the footprint of these built developments. The size of the buildings will also determine the level of parking that will need to be provided. Furthermore, we do not know what the operators’ intentions is in terms of the design of the builings (supermarket and leisure centre). Are these buildings going to be single or double storey? Again, this will affect the footprint of the building(s). We also dont know yet what other associated facilities the supermarket or leisure operator may provide e.g. a petrol station or outdoor sports provision. All of these factors will influence the total area of built development and will determine how the site is developed. Consequently, I would rather wait until I know the full facts before (attempting) to design the development.
However, notwithstanding the above, i consider a significant area of Westbridge Park will be left undeveloped.
Ben Alcock
From what I can gather, Mark and other such as Chris are stating that Stone residents and some Cllrs should wait until Stafford BC have completed the consultation process and produced proposals for the scheme and have urged people to make their opinions then. Rather than dismissing all development and any proposal for the site. We still do not know whether permission for a supermarket for a site will be granted. So lets stop this scaremongering and wait for the proposals.
Allan Skerratt
Chris do you not think Tesco or Asda or whoever would want a petrol station. Show me a Tesco or an Asda that does not have a petrol station: so that argument is irrelelvant. I think you are clutching at straws when you decribe the Scotch brook as a ‘river’. Its tiny and it does not effect the overall size of the plot. Finally I am not an expert but how many Leisure centres have you seen with two floors ??
Ben Alcock
Cannock is a new ASDA without a petrol Station.